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TX:  01.12.17 – Ep 24. Ebony Rainford-Brent on growing and developing within and beyond cricket

HOST:  TAMMY PARLOUR

TP:      Welcome to a Question of Performance. I’m Tammy Parlour and in this series I’ll be talking with leading figures from sport and business about what improves, limits and drives performance. Join me for 20 minutes of discussion twice a month to hear a range of views and what it means to be successful, how to cope with failure and what people have learnt along the way. 

Today I’m chatting to former English cricketer, Ebony Rainford Brent. I love being around Ebony, she has this appetite for life that is really, really appealing. She seems to constantly be seeking out opportunities to learn and to grow and soaks up every experience that comes her way. She talks to me about everything from winning a World Cup to overcoming injury, what it’s like to be part of a high performance team and what’s driving and motivating her now. I started by asking her to tell me what her week had been like so far.       

ERB:    Actually it’s really good. I’ve just actually flown in from Iceland.

TP:       Oh wow.         

ERB:    I only got back about 02:00am this morning. I’ve got a bucket list which I’m obsessed about. I’ve done, I think that takes me up to 29 out of my 84 list, so seeing the Northern Lights, so yeah.

TP:       Wow, okay.     

ERB:    A couple of days ago I was up with some friends driving around Iceland motorways chasing the Northern Lights and we saw it, so pretty amazing.

TP:       Fantastic, what else is on the list?     

ERB:    A lot of things on the list. One is writing a book. There’s simple things from adventure things through to trying to challenge myself to learn Spanish, to write a book, to try and get a ten golf handicap, which is quite hard at the moment, but yeah. Some are challenges and some are just seeing the world.

TP:       Where has this come from?   

ERB:    Good question. Maybe five years ago while I was notably at that stage of giving up sport and not sure where I was going in life I realised that I had been so focussed on sport I hadn’t done anything. I hadn’t travelled outside of a cricket tour really. I was like right, set a challenge so that you can just experience a bit more, bring peole in. Friends have got involved. It’s been one of the best things I’ve ever done, I have to say.

TP:       That’s brilliant. I hate to take you back to sport but I have to.   

ERB:    Yeah, let’s talk about sport [laughs], exactly.

TP:       I want to go back a little bit to 2009. You won a World Cup in Sydney in 2009 and I would imagine it’s the definition of an ultimate high performance team. What’s it like being in a team like that?        

ERB:    Yeah, it’s really interesting. I think I would trek back a couple of years before that with the team in 2007, which is when I made my debut in India and we went on this world series which was us, Australia, New Zealand and India and I think we thought we were going out there to win and we pretty much lost every game. It was car crash. My first tour I’m thinking this is horrendous and I remember Charlotte Edwards, who was our captain, and as captain of the team for a long time said to us in the change room at the end, we need to have a bit more pride, we need to step up and really go for it. And that 18-month period, two-year period after that was mostly one of the most incredible periods I’ve ever been part of a team where we all got very clear on our roles and responsibilities. We all really focussed on one team goal and really buying in whether you’re the person carrying the drinks or whether you’re the one out there scoring 100. And it was just this real focus and we went on this run of about 18 games unbeaten up ‘til the World Cup. We stumbled I think in one game during the World Cup, but other than that we just found this flow. It was an incredible period. It takes a lot from one leaders. I think the leaders of that environment are critical for painting that vision, but also you need to find the leaders within the environment and I think that’s what I saw, is people, everybody became their own mini leader within that environment. It was really special and I don’t think I’ve ever been part of a team or environment again that had that sort of high performance culture.

TP:       I don’t believe that anyone gets to the top without failing, without fighting through barriers. Do you feel that you’ve had to push through barriers in order to play?      

ERB:    Yeah, definitely. Internal, external barriers, I think everything from internal barriers around belief and confidence, especially as well where I had a back injury and I was out for three years and I couldn’t walk for a year and I was in a depression. I had to learn a lot to pull myself out of that. Externally as well, especially playing cricket, being a younger girl there was a lot of people who kind of, why are you doing that? You don’t fit, as well, my kind of personality, being from a more inner city urban background going into a very different world which was much more middle class and I didn’t feel like I fit. There’s a lot of external challenges of going into an environment that was very different. I think there’s been so many as well. The fact that when I started it was very amateur, progressed and now they’re fully professional but going for something like that when it’s not necessarily paying the bills is also another barrier. I think you do, you have to learn that bounce back ability for lots of different challenges, whether it’s internal or external.

TP:       You said that you were in an environment that didn’t fit. Most people, if they don’t feel they fit they turn around, they go and do something else.    

ERB:    Yeah.

TP:       How come you stayed? How come you made it fit?      

ERB:    It’s a good question. I think there’s a few reasons. I think one is I loved the training, a bit like now I’ve taken up, I love the going to training and hitting a 1,000,000 balls. I don’t think I could recreate that feeling anywhere and I think if anything gives you that kind of pull or sucks you in, even with all the things around it, you have to say I still love this thing and am I gonna give this up because someone’s questioning why I’m doing it? Or I don’t feel confident today. Am I gonna still stop myself getting that need met? I think that’s one thing that keeps you, two is people around you, especially my mum. She was always in my ear inspiring me and supporting me. And I think you need people who, especially in tough times, remind you why you’re doing it, why you put yourself through it. And also cricket as well quite uniquely I suppose in that sense, you’re away for long periods of time. I really liked seeing new places. One week you might be up in the middle of Yorkshire or something and then you might be on a tour in Dharamshala in India or something. I loved that aspect as well so there was so many things, being around people that keep you but I would say it was always a constant battle I found of staying involved, but I’m so glad I did.

TP:       If you had to do it all over again today, do you think those barriers would still be around or has time moved on?          

ERB:    That’s a really good question. I think there’s less barriers in sport now about being female so I think there would be less people who would kind of what are you doing, why are you doing that? Because I think the awareness, the support for females in sport is just another level, especially cricket, seeing it grows. I think that would help. I still think there’s issues around diversity in the sport and I would like to see more young people coming in from diverse backgrounds. I’m [unclear 07:25] nature of how the sport’s set up. It’s much more green fields rather than inner city and it doesn’t culturally allow that to happen but so I think that barrier will still be there. And also there’s still those usual challenges of having to take out a competition and being the best that there is and all that sort of stuff. Yeah, I still think that and the internal barriers, I don’t think we ever get rid of them as well so that’s always something that you’ve just gotta learn how to get through and build on.

TP:       Looking back at your cricket career, so before you retired, what would you say you were most proud of?        

ERB:    I think it’s the World Cup, but I think it’s the journey to it in terms of being I was out for three years with the injury. I’m proud of doing that and I set a specific goal to come back and be part of it and to actually achieve something which took four years, I’m pretty proud of. I’m proud of some of the friendships actually. I think that’s one thing that’s unique about sport or environments where you really push yourselves to the edge, that you experience things in a way that you don’t with everybody else ‘cause you haven’t been through the highs and the lows in the same sort of way. I’ve come out with some friends who are pretty special and I guess I’m proud of that ‘cause I love people, I love connections as well. To be able to experience life deeper with people is pretty special. I think that World Cup and it is all the little things that led to that moment what I’m most proud of.

TP:       Any regrets from that time?   

ERB:    Yeah, I think my biggest regret is about how slow I internally developed. What I mean by that is one of the things I did towards the back end of my career was I went out and sought people who had achieved what I wanted to achieve and then just modelled everything they did and it had results. One was a guy called Michael Carberry who played cricket for England. He also played for Surrey and I learnt so much so quickly that I thought I wish I’d been doing this ten years earlier, I would have saved so much time, so things like that, regrets there. But other than that I don’t have any major regrets. The good and the bad you really take it.

TP:       Is that what is driving this desire to write a book? ‘Cause your book’s on mindset, so this desire to keep getting better. What are you learning about?          

ERB:    Oh my gosh, I’ve learnt so much. I’ve learnt strategies. An example I’ll give you is this week Cyrille Regis, who’s the England footballer, he played back ‘70’s, ‘80’s, etcetera. He gave a really good bit of advice about when your confidence is low, how to stay on track. And he talks about how focussing on the sick self tends in just trying to nail it down the middle, and the mindset that goes with the self-talk that goes with it. And there’s so many things I find day to day and people who have been listening have said I’ve been implementing that and it works. There’s just so many little strategies that I think they’re around focus, they’re around self-talk is so big. It’s just been incredible, so learning patience; I’m not very naturally patient and Allyson Felix, who’s the American track and field athlete, she talked about who she’s developed patience. I remind myself right, listen to what that person’s said and implement it, so yeah, I’m loving the process but there’s so many nuggets of how they’ve gone about it that you can take that insight away.

TP:       When can we hope that it’s on the shelves?  

ERB:    Yeah, that’s a good question. I’m going off to Australia for the winter to commentate so I’m going to try and start scoping out the details. By next year, mid-next year to late next year I wanna have something meaty ready to go.

TP:       I’ll look forward to reading it. You talked about going and commentating. Was that a given?

ERB:    No, I had no clue what I was gonna do and I was quite scared of quitting ‘cause I felt time to go but I didn’t know where I was gonna go with career. I think it’s a mixture of luck. What happened the year before I retired was I actually had an injury. I stepped on the ball, stepped back on a ball, freak accident, ended up in a boot. It was the first time I started thinking what am I gonna do when I go forward? I started doing some volunteering and cricket charities and bits and bobs. And what I didn’t realise was those people that I’d met during those periods had crossed over were very quite influential people and I got some offers when I came out. One was to work for a charity, Lord’s Taverners, which is a cricket-based charity but I had no plan on the media until I got a phone call from a producer who I bumped into during that period and he basically said look, I saw you and I thought you had something to offer so just come and give it a try and that was it really. I was just kind of in and once you’re in I think if you enjoy it and you go with it you can fly but it wasn’t a natural decision to stay in cricket. I didn’t really know where I was gonna go but I definitely got lucky ‘cause I know it can be a challenge for a lot of athletes.

TP:       You’re director of Surrey cricket as well. What does that role involve?           

ERB:    Yeah so what you’re basically trying to grow the game in terms of women’s cricket at the club so at the moment we’re looking at a mixture of everything from performance, so trying to put the performance structure in place to make sure the Surrey women, senior women, the pathway is thriving. But I also look at commercial opportunities, marketing, just trying to make sure the women’s game at the club is in a healthy order. I’m really lucky to be part of a club that have invested in women’s cricket quite heavily. From me we’ve just hired our first full-time head coach to run the performance structure. It’s just been a really unique position because I’ve been at the club for 20 years as everything from playing through to I used to coach, was one of my first jobs through to now seeing all of the levels and being able to sit down and plan our performance [over speaking 13:12].

TP:       What’s it like being on the other side?           

ERB:    Yeah it’s weird actually ‘cause there’s a lot of people as well who I grew up working with and it’s weird. Sometimes I feel really young to be doing what I’m doing actually, but then I also feel like your experience of knowing what it’s like to be that young girl coming through the system, knowing the desire to play for England and what kind of things that need to be in place. I’ve been fortunate enough to go through that journey so it is weird sitting on the other side, I have to say, but really pleased to be able to help the game and drive forward.

TP:       Have you noticed a difference since England won the world cup this year?

ERB:    Yeah, massively. One, it’s a lot easier to sell things. Because it’s crazy how an impact of so many people watching that World Cup moment and realising cricket can, for women’s cricket anyway, can be a mainstay on TV for all we know in ten years’ time. People are prepared to invest and that’s everything from more support staff to more speaking to parents, more schools want to be involved. it’s just ramping up at all levels and I think we’ve really got to capitalise on these moments because they’re special points in time but you don’t want them to be a flash in the pan so yeah. It’s a lot easier to walk into a room and ask for some money now because people will support it.

TP:       What was so special about that win? Was it that they won? Was it that it was televised? Was it that it was at Lord’s? … I was there it was amazing, but why?     

ERB:    I think it’s a mixture of things but I think Lord’s is significant because it was only 1998 when women got the right to play, to become MCC members and to me that’s really recent history. It’s so close and to see women’s sport take over Lord’s, pretty much. It’s all part of it and to have ticket touts outside who are desperately trying to sell tickets because it was completely packed. To then have 100,000,000 global audience, 1.1 listening and watching in the UK, I was just like this is a watershed moment. People love this and I suppose when you’ve been on the journey from seeing a man and his dog turning up to a packed out Lord’s, it’s a game changer really. It’s a real special moment and I think that Lord’s is unique. Because of that women weren’t even allowed in as members not that long ago, to see down the line a full house is really special.

TP:       Did you anticipate it being as big as it was?  

ERB:    I think a lot of people hoped, so being part of the broadcast team and we talked it up and it’s one of those things you thought, and we kept getting updates of right, 5,000 tickets sold, okay, come on, 10,000 and I knew speaking to a few people behind the scenes it was getting close, but it still then depended on England doing well. If England hadn’t taken it all the way to the final then it might not have been that real momentous occasion, but every day it was like as they got through then people just kept buying tickets, which is pretty amazing.

TP:       This podcast is about success, it’s about performance and I’m interested to know how you define success? What is success for you?            

ERB:    Success for me is quite simple. I think it’s about setting yourself a goal and achieving it and also learning to enjoy that journey, because there’s a danger in setting a goal and just being so obsessed and actually not being happy once you sometimes get a goal. I know I’ve been there where you’re just never quite happy. Whereas for me it’s about setting yourself something big and I think that’s one thing that I’ve noticed with everybody I’ve spoken to. They might not necessarily have a detailed plan or anything like that but they’ve all got a clear vision of what they’re trying to achieve and they’ve gone about it in different ways. They’ve had to overcome different barriers, but they’ve all set themselves something that they want to really manifest or make happen. I think that’s what I see success as, because I think everybody’s goal is different, everybody’s success is different. I’ve worked with disability support and somebody in a wheelchair might have a different goal to somebody who’s fully abled but they’ve both still found their own goals that they’ve put out there and they want to achieve. And there’s nothing more satisfying I think than knowing that you’ve grown and you’ve moved forward. For me it’s quite simple. It’s just about achieving those goals that you set for yourself and enjoying that process.

TP:       Are you successful?  

ERB:    That’s a really good question. I’ve achieved a lot of goals I want but I also have a lot of things that I want to do and one thing I’ve noticed, it is a never ending process and I think I kind of like that. It is a never ending process so I feel as if I’ve achieved some success but I still feel like there’s a lot to go.

TP:       Can you take pleasure in that success?         

ERB:    Yeah.

TP:       You can?        

ERB:    I do, yes, I do and it sounds really corny but I capture a lot on Instagram and things like that and I see every now and then I just scroll back and look at things, key milestones. Whether it’s a holiday or little bits, commentating, being the first female to commentate on a test, I just like looking back at pictures and moments and just going back and going wow, that’s really cool, that you’ve done that and you’ve seen that take off.

TP:       It sounds like a really good tip.          

ERB:    Yeah, maybe it is actually.

TP:       And success for women’s cricket, where would you like it to go in the next five or ten or however you want to?

ERB:    I think the main thing for me is quite clear at the moment is that the domestic level needs to get that to professional levels. At the moment there’s been so many investment in seeing the England team grow and it’s great for the top 20. And we’re starting to get some levels of payment  going for domestic but for it to really thrive and be competitive and stay the course long term I think we need to look at building that layer underneath. That’s kind of the next step in my mind of making sure those youngsters coming through can really go forward and have a full career.

TP:       And your part in that?

ERB:    My part in that is trying to get a lot of money from some, one, from the commercials, two, from the club and three just making the game. If the game is successful we found with our Surrey stars this year the more people coming through the gates, loving what they’re seeing will come back. That’s pretty much my goal is to get as many people coming and making sure the product on the field is good.

TP:       Fantastic, before we wrap up I’ve got some quick five questions for you.  

ERB:    Okay, hit me.

TP:       What did you eat for breakfast?         

ERB:    Muesli, it’s got some raspberry bits in. I don’t even know which brand it is but it’s really nice.

TP:       Brilliant. Favourite piece of kit?         

ERB:    As in oh, my iPad Pro,  I’m obsessed with, I don’t go anywhere without it. I’m a bit of a techie, but my iPad Pro with the pencil is a must have.

TP:       Sporting hero?           

ERB:    Ooh, good question. I’ve got a few from Denise Lewis through to oh, I don’t know. Katherine Brunt I’ll say who’s a current England player, she is pretty amazing as well.

TP:       Why those two?          

ERB:    Denise Lewis was when I was growing up notably being a young, black female I saw her and I related and identified with her. I loved her character. Katherine Brunt is like a war horse. She’s been through the wars and she comes out every day fighting and she’s like come on, let’s take it on and I love her spirit. She’s just got an amazing fighting spirit.

TP:       Most useless piece of advice you’ve either received or given to someone else?   

ERB:    A useless piece of advice, I was saying this the other day, Jonathan Agnew who’s a commentator, he’s lovely but he says that one day when I grow up I’ll stop drinking Sauvignon Blanc and I’ll mature to Chardonnay and I’m like that is just absolute nonsense, isn’t it? Yeah so I think that’s quite funny.

TP:       Greatest passion outside of sport?    

ERB:    My bucket list, I’m obsessed with it and that links to my photography as well.

TP:       And last one, best performance enhancer?   

ERB:    Oh, that’s a good question. Sleep, good sleep and a cup of tea as well.

TP:       [unclear 20:54].           

ERB:    And then you’re fine. I think a good sleep. If you can get a good sleep in before then you should be alright.

TP:       Fantastic, it’s been brilliant talking to you today.             

ERB:    Thank you for having me.

TP:       Thanks for listening. You can follow the conversation on Twitter, Facebook and also don’t forget to subscribe online to www.aquestionofperformance.com.