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TX:  1.11.16 – Ep 3. Hannah Cockroft MBE – paralympic champion on winning

HOST:  TAMMY PARLOUR

TP: Welcome to A Question of Performance. I’m Tammy Parlour and in this series I’ll be talking with leading figures from sport and business about what improves, limits and drives performance. Join me for 20 minutes of discussion twice a month to hear a range of views on what it means to be successful, how to cope with failure and what people have learnt along the way.

So I’m here with Hannah Cockroft who is not long back from winning three gold medals at the Paralympic Games in Rio. Hannah dominates the T34 wheelchair racing class and is a world record holder in the 100 metres, 200 metres, 400 metres and 800 metres…honestly if I think I read all her achievements we’d not really have much time left to talk.

What would you say you’re most proud of?

HC: For me, I don’t know, strange but it’s a question I get asked a lot. I think in Rio I kind of hoped coming out of it that one medal would mean more to me than the others but each medal has its own specific meaning. So the 100 metres was my favourite event, my strongest event and the only one that I could retain from London; the 400 I broke the world record in so it was my best race, but the 800 was the hardest to win it was the biggest challenge so it’s tough to prioritise the real medals. But I think, in general, I’m probably most proud of probably my London medals, that was a home game was the first Games and it’s just so many memories what happened there and what went into getting there. And I just don’t think anything can ever beat that, nothing can ever beat being a Great Britain athlete at a Great Britain Games – your first Games you’re 21 years old and you’ve won both races, so yeah probably them [laughs].

TP: You said the 100 metres is your favourite, why is the 100 metres so special?

HC: I think just…I’m just good at it!

TP: [Laughs] Ah, there we go!

HC: I just enjoy it, I find it exciting to train for, I like working on the sharpest rather than going out and doing miles and miles of pushing and it’s the one that I most dominate. No-one’s ever got close to me in the 100 metres so it was the one that I guess the most pressure was on that one because it was expected, but it is the one that I just enjoy the most.

TP: You have won an awful lot, what does it feel like to win?

HC: For me, to be honest, the only reason why I train is because I like the feeling of winning. If I wasn’t winning, I probably wouldn’t do this sport [laughs]. It’s just a brilliant feeling and it means that you’re still the best, the best on the side line, the best in the world whatever it might be. I love – I’m not going to lie – I love the glory that comes off the back of winning. Training isn’t always that fun, but, actually, the things that you get to do off the back of winning are just incredibly really. When you actually win – it depends what race it is, if it’s just a domestic race it’s kind of just like, ‘right, okay, that’s another one done, tick it off the list, another time to qualify for whatever championships we’re going for that year, get on with the next race.’ And it’s something like the Paralympics kind of came across the line and it was strange in Rio because you want to go round, you want to do your victory like you want to really celebrate and we were being made to stop and turn around and go straight to the media and it didn’t really give me time to think or celebrate.

TP: [Over speech].

HC: Yeah, you didn’t really get time to be excited about what you’d just done it, it was like, ‘Right, stop, next race,’ and it was about giving yourself that time. And, for me, it was nice in Rio because I could see my Mum and Dad in the crowds and I think that makes it special when there are people that have been through the whole journey with you. Hopefully it’s as exciting for them as it is for me [laughs].

TP: Is there a dark side; is there a stressful side to success? Because there’s a lot of pressure, you’re the one to beat.

HC: Yeah, there’s loads of exploitation that goes along with it and that can be really tough to manage, especially when it comes from people who don’t really know what it’s like to win. People think they’re being nice saying, ‘Oh, you’re going to win it, there’s no pressure, there’s no doubt,’ there’s none this and you’re just like, well, actually there is because you’ve just put it on there by saying that. So normally people are trying to be nice by saying it, but then there’s the other side of it where people put the pressure on by saying someone else is going to beat you. So, for me, in Rio obviously there was 15 year old Carrie, Carrie was the first girl to ever beat me, which is not great. But just going to Rio and it was all like there was the rivalry they were building up, and once it’s been built up so much you start to believe it yourself and I had to keep trying to remind myself that’s not really there, I am still two seconds ahead in every single race and this is something that other people are making up. So yeah, it is a lot about controlling what your mind is thinking and trying to remind yourself in your head I’m doing this for me I’m not doing this for anybody else. Whatever happens on that track, I’ve done the hard work and nobody else. And, at the end of the say, I know what I can do and nobody else can, so I think I proved that in Rio [laughs].

TP: You mentioned Carrie being your first defeat it was in 2015 I think?

HC: It was.

TP: And it was your first defeat in seven years?

HC: It was.

TP: I read something that was saying you described it as being a wake-up call?

HC: Yeah.

TP: Can you talk to me about that, how did it feel to be defeated?

HC: Horrible, it was that horrible. And even though again it was only a little domestic meet there was no-one really there watching and it wasn’t my greatest day; I wasn’t really focussed on the race. It was our last race before flying out to the World Championships, we went in and, the thing is, when we’re racing domestically we’re up against the same six/eight girls every race, every weekend of the whole summer and it gets to the point where you know who’s going to come first, you know who’s going to come second and you know who’s going to come third. And I think I just went into the race in that mind-set of basically that I can’t be bothered to be here, there’s no point in being here I’m going to come second to the high classification girl and that’s how it’s going to finish, and so I went into the race and I just completely switched off. But actually, when I crossed the line and realised what had happened, I think the worst thing for me was knowing no-one else noticed it had happened. I’d upheld this undefeatable title for so long and once it had gone no-one cared aside from me. I came across the line and the other girls turned around and it was like, ‘Well done, well done’ and my friend was in the race and she was like, ‘What’s wrong? Did you not do a good time?’ And I was like, ‘Did you not realise I’d just got beat?’ And she was like, ‘Oh, I didn’t even notice.’

TP: [Laughs].

HC: Well, right okay, well I’m glad I worked so hard at trying to keep this up then! It was, it was just horrible and it was tough because it was a day when we had to do several races in a day, which we normally do when we’re just racing domestically and it was tough to get my mind back in the right place to go out and compete again against the same girls.

TP: I suppose the question that most of us are much more used to losing.

HC: [Laughs].

TP: I’m defeated quite regularly [laughs]. How do you flip that switch? How do you go from being utterly devastated to the flicking the switch and going out and winning again?

HC: You’ve just got to have a good team around you really. I came in and obviously I had my management team there, I had – not even really my coach someone’s coach – and they came over to me and the coach and I said “I’m not going to back out, I’m not racing I’m going home and I’m not racing again today” and he said, “If you go home, you might as well quit because you’re not the athlete I thought you were.” And when someone you really respect says that to you, you just kind of think, ‘Yeah, I’m being silly. What am I doing?’ I know what exactly what I did wrong in that race, I know that I switched off, I know I can push better, and basically the next race was the 800 the one that I’m always worried about and I just thought if I’m going to get beat I might as well get beat in the race I don’t like [laughs], so I just went out and just played a safe race really. After speaking to people it was like I know that that’s not me, the person in the chair that day was not me, and I went out and raced again to just, ‘Right okay, so that happened, that’s finished, let’s start the next seven years, just put it to one side.’ It’s a big turnaround to make in a matter of maybe an hour between races, but yeah if you’ve got the right people to talk to and to set you back on your way then that’s the way it works I think.

TP: So what’s a day in the life of Hannah Cockroft?

HC: [Laughs].

TP: Talk to me about what you did yesterday?

HC: There is no typical day in the life of Hannah Cockroft! Yesterday was a very surreal day, we started it down in London, we went back to the Olympic Park back in the Olympic Stadium with one of my sponsors, BT, they were doing a big launch of a new initiative and I was there to kind of support that. And then we got helicoptered back up to Leeds.

TP: As you do! [Laughs].

HC: I do that every day, obviously.

TP: Obviously, yeah.

HC: So an hour and twenty in a private chopper was great back up to Leeds, back for the Yorkshire Homecoming, so they had their Rio Hero’s Day and it was just kind of just a really strange day. And I’m excited about the helicopter and I’m tired from a morning of doing loads of interviews and then you get in an open top car by yourself and basically driven through thousands of people all screaming at you and getting excited about what you’ve just done, and it was like just…oh, I don’t know, you go to these things and you don’t really know what to expect and you’re like…yeah it sounds a great idea, but nah I’m not going to get too…I’m not going to get too over the top with it and…it was just phenomenal to have that many people. When we were in Rio you’re kind of in this bubble where you have no idea what’s happening at home, you have no idea what’s happening outside of the village really; you’re concentrating yourself and your performance and you’re just living in a selfish little world. And then you come and you just realise that all these people, plus more, were supporting you or were watching what you were doing and were believing in you and it kind of blows everything that you’ve just done to a whole bigger level. You look at the medals and you’re like oh, I’ve done really well and you realise, number one, how many other people were involved; but number two, how many other people are genuinely excited about what you’ve just done – it just makes it all so much bigger, it makes it all so much grander and more exciting I guess. Because it’s great to look at the medal but sometimes it’s a bit like, mmm, was it worth it sat on that track?

TP: I was just going to say, how are you at celebrating success?

HC: Rubbish! I’m very much a person who…

TP: Onto the next?

HC: Yeah. I’ll set a target and I’ll get it and I’ll be like right, what’s now? So as soon as I came off the track in Rio it was like right, now I’ve got to pack my chair, right now I’ve got to get anti-doping. At no point did I really sit and look at the medal and think, ‘Oh my God, I’ve done it.’ I think I went to Rio believing that I could win three medal golds but not really believing it, if that makes sense? I knew I could, but…it was whether I was in the right mind-set on the day and…yeah, it was weird, you kind of never…I still haven’t really sat down and thought about wow, I’ve worked for four years and I’ve actually done what I said I’d do. I’ve just come back and done all these amazing things and just been like, yeah, that’s cool, let’s do some more.

TP: [Laughs]. So as far as training goes, you’re in a [unclear speech 11:29] at the moment?

HC: Yeah, so I’ve taken a couple of weeks out, I’ll probably get back into light training next week just because I agreed to do my leg in the Yorkshire marathon so it’s split into a relay and I always do a leg, and I feel like if I don’t get in my chair before that I might have problems.

But then yeah, probably get back into proper training in November time.

TP: So for someone who has achieved so much, what are your top two goals at the moment?

HC: Well there’s only a top one goal really to keep winning! Yeah, just…

TP: How long do you think you can sustain that for?

HC: It’s getting harder and harder every year. I’d love to say I can keep doing it until Tokyo, that’s obviously the aim I want to be in Tokyo.

TP: You say getting harder, it’s an ageing thing, is it a competition thing, is it some…?

HC: It’s a competition thing, it’s every time there’s a Paralympics, every time there’s the World Championships, every time Channel 4 shows some support a new face comes in; someone new is inspired, someone new is motivated to take up the sport, and it’s amazing how much talent is just sat at home not believing in themselves. And obviously I’m getting to a place now I’m 24 so I’m still young, but I’ve been in this sport for nearly 10 years so there’s getting less and less things that I can change, that I can develop. I can only get stronger and getting stronger takes a lot of time, whereas a lot of the girls they’re new so they can change their chair, they can change their technique and they can change how they’re sitting, there are so many things that they can kind of change to make them go faster, which isn’t actually getting in the gym or getting out on the road or the track and putting in the hard miles.

TP: Yes. How does someone beat Hannah Cockroft?

HC: Beat me?

TP: Yes.

HC: They can’t – no, I’m joking!

TP: [Over speech]. [Laughs].

HC: Honestly, I think it’s all down to confidence. I always say to people if you believe you can do it then you’ll do it. And you know what, the problem with the problem with the girls I race against is they come in and they expect me to win, so straightaway on the start line they’re talking themselves down. I would never go into a race and look at another girl and be like, ‘She going to beat me.’ She could beat me if I’m thinking that she can, but actually she won’t because I know that she thinks that I’m going to beat her, and I genuinely think it’s all in your head. All the girls there are strong enough to beat me they just don’t push themselves hard enough I don’t think.

TP: Right it’s been brilliant talking to you today. I’ve just got some quick fire questions [over speech].

HC: Go for it!

TP: What did you eat for breakfast this morning?

HC: Well I had Crunchy Nut Cornflakes before I came out, but then I had bacon butty on the train.

TP: Favourite piece of sports kit?

HC: Oh favourite piece of sports kit? Probably my vest from London 2012. Yeah, probably.

TP: Sporting hero?

HC: Chantal Petitclerc.

TP: And why?

HC: She’s the most decorated female Paralympian ever.

TP: She’s Canadian isn’t she?

HC: She’s Canadian, yeah. I think she won 20 gold medals.

TP: Amazing.

HC: And I was lucky enough to have her as my coach in the Paralympics in London so she’s just a phenomenal lady and…yes, she’s my hero. [Laughs].

TP: Most useless piece of advice you’ve either been given or you’ve given to somebody else?

HC: Oh man! I’ve probably given loads of rubbish advice. Most useless piece of advice I’ve been given. That’s really hard. I’ve no idea.

TP: Don’t worry if you can’t. Greatest passion outside of sport?

HC: Music. [Laughs].

TP: And best performance enhancer?

HC: Oh, strawberry laces.

TP: Strawberry laces? [Laughs].

HC: Yeah because they make go quick.

TP: Really?

HC: I eat them before every race. You’ve got to get your strawberry laces in.

TP: Fantastic. It’s been brilliant, thank you so much.

HC: Thank you.

TP: Thanks for listening. You can follow the conversation on Twitter, Facebook and also don’t forget to subscribe online to aquestionofperformance.com.